Opinions wanted on these "contemporary" LED's:

[monologuist]

Hey there...new to this forum. I am a neophyte when i comes to LED watches, but I am currently on the lookout for one. I am just not sure whether to go with a contemporary model or to shoot for a vintage one. It would be really helpful if I could get some opinions on some of the following models that are in production presently. I should mention that I have somewhat skinny wrists, like 6.5 to 7 inches in circumference (I don't mind somewhat oversized looking watches, as long as it is not ridiculous looking or if the band can't actually fit) :

Original Penguin "Pebble Pimp" :
https://www.ticwatches.co.uk/original-p ... le-585.htm

Dot Matrix Retro:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/matri ... -p-75.html

"Shadow IPB" analog/digital
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/shado ... p-395.html

Tokyoflash Driver's reissue:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/watch ... p-153.html

"Reflection" watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/refle ... p-285.html

Commodore NOS watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/commo ... p-210.html

Pulsar NOS watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/pulsa ... p-108.html

Eagle SS retro:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/eagle ... -p-85.html

Majestyk M-II:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/majes ... p-202.html

Inverta Time computer:
http://www.thetimecomputer.com/index%20start.htm

There may also be a couple models from the brands "NIXON" and "VESTRAL" and "ADIDAS".

Also, it would be helpful to fill me in on what the general pros and cons are of vintage vs. contemporary models (assuming comparing exemplary examples of each). Thanks in advance for our input!

[bucko170]

I think it is a matter of personal taste.

I personally prefer the original 70s LED watch, they can be reasonably cheap to buy and to me there is nothing like the feel of the real thing.

It's a little bit like that squirty cream you can buy in a can, it's ok but it's just not as good as the real thing.

Pros and Cons -
The modern types are probably going to be more reliable and more likely to carry a guarantee.
Buying a vintage 70s LED can lead to 'mad collection fever' - I know!
A 30 year old timepiece is a piece of history, new watches just don't evoke the same feelings.

The Commodore and Pulsar as NOS I personally would consider as original 70s watches although this could be a matter of opinion.

Skinny wrists are ok, bands can be shortened, links removed etc, the only ones to watch for would be the mesh type band (Pulsar dress type) which have a fixed length with only the adjustment available on the clasp.

There is a vast array of both modern and vintage to choose from.

BTW: I also like the 'Inverta' (last link) but I don't think it actually went into production.

[monologuist]

I think it is a matter of personal taste.

I personally prefer the original 70s LED watch, they can be reasonably cheap to buy and to me there is nothing like the feel of the real thing.

It's a little bit like that squirty cream that you can buy in a can it's ok but it's just not as good as the real thing.

Pros and Cons -
The modern types are probably going to be more reliable and more likely to carry a guarantee.
Buying a vintage 70s LED can lead to 'mad collection fever' - I know!
A 30 year old timepiece is a piece of history, new watches just don't evoke the same feelings.

The Commodore and Pulsar as NOS I personally would consider as original 70s watches although this could be a matter of opinion.

BTW: I also like the 'Inverta' (last link) but I don't think it actually went into production.

Do you happen to know which, if any of the models I listed above are of comparable quality to high quality vintage models? I imagine there is quite a range of quality with contemporary ones..I had a "retro" LED watch a few years ago where the "stainless steel" band oxidized and corroded within a year.

Yes I forgot to specify the Commodore and Pulsar as being NOS....just wondering if they are considered desirable models, and if a NOS vintage LED watch would rival a contemporary one in terms of "performance", "reliability", etc.

[bucko170]

The 'bullet proof' Pulsar sport is discussed here.

http://www.dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=1774& ... t+reliable

[rewolf]

...It would be really helpful if I could get some opinions on some of the following models that are in production presently...

Quite a task you gave us here!
See my comments below in blue

Original Penguin "Pebble Pimp" :
https://www.ticwatches.co.uk/original-p ... le-585.htm
This is not an LED, but backlit LCD. Inacceptable, poor readabilty. Ridiculously oversized buttons.

Dot Matrix Retro:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/matri ... -p-75.html
One of the better modern displays. The shape is a matter of taste.

"Shadow IPB" analog/digital
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/shado ... p-395.html
I wouldn't call this an LED watch because the primary display is analogue. I like the rectangular shape, but it's very bold, perhaps too much for your wrist. The display is not very good (segments unevenly lighted).

Tokyoflash Driver's reissue:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/watch ... p-153.html
Nice watch, but also rather large. The original Tokyoflash price was 99 US$, IIRC.

"Reflection" watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/refle ... p-285.html
IMO the coolest of all modern LED watches! Because of its mirrored dial the readability in daylight could be a bit poor.
Available on ebay for AU$ 99

Commodore NOS watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/commo ... p-210.html
Nice sharp original 70s LED display - better than any modern LED. Overpriced, IMO. The case is a matter of taste...

Pulsar NOS watch:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/pulsa ... p-108.html
The best in your list. $595 is a bit pricey.

Eagle SS retro:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/eagle ... -p-85.html
Original 70s LED display, but the rest is

Majestyk M-II:
http://www.ledwatchstop.com/store/majes ... p-202.html
Excellent quality. Good display with evenly lighted segments. I prefer the coloured crystals (especially red - I have all 4 versions )
majestyk is a well-known and respected member of the LED watch community - he also sells on ebay.


Inverta Time computer:
http://www.thetimecomputer.com/index%20start.htm
The LED community has been waiting for about 3 years now... (there has been a lot of discussion about the Inverta here)

[monologuist]

Rewolf,

Thanks for the opinions....pretty much confirmed what I had already suspected.

I am now leaning towards the Pulsar Sports model, although not at 595$. I actually contacted the ebay seller, Barbie, and he still had some of these Pulsars left. He is now asking 550$ for it instead of 350$. And the man at planet-led.com wanted 475$ for the exact same one (refurbished case, etc.) Why is everyone trying to rip me off?!

Do you have direct experience with the Reflection watch? Is this a legit LED watch on the level of the Majestyk? Is the fit and finish as nice as it appears in the photos? And how big is it compared to the Pulsar Sport?

Looking at a bunch of pictures of various vintage LED's, it appears that these Pulsar models are kind of a cut above the rest in quality...is that accurate or is it just that they photograph really well?!

[retroleds]

I actually contacted the ebay seller, Barbie, and he still had some of these Pulsars left. He is now asking 550$ for it instead of 350$. And the man at planet-led.com wanted 475$ for the exact same one (refurbished case, etc.) Why is everyone trying to rip me off?!

Different prices can mean something different, to different people. Some people will pay a premium for a piece from what they consider a regular seller/dealer of watches, over an ebay seller. Some people absolutely will not buy off ebay, so they don't participate in the same market. Like I frequently tell people"you aren't bidding against me, you are bidding against the average price the people who won't/don't use ebay would be willing to pay. Look at the bottom of this page: http://www.millermilitaria.com/pulsar2.html
, someone paid $850 for one of those Sports, about 2.5 years ago(the seller was a customer of mine, he got the Sport off ebay from Barbie). When the Sports are all sold off, they will rise in value nicely I'm thinking. Several hundred of Pulsars sent to me for repair - one, maybe two Sports.

[monologuist]

I actually contacted the ebay seller, Barbie, and he still had some of these Pulsars left. He is now asking 550$ for it instead of 350$. And the man at planet-led.com wanted 475$ for the exact same one (refurbished case, etc.) Why is everyone trying to rip me off?!

Different prices can mean something different, to different people. Some people will pay a premium for a piece from what they consider a regular seller/dealer of watches, over an ebay seller. Some people absolutely will not buy off ebay, so they don't participate in the same market. Like I frequently tell people"you aren't bidding against me, you are bidding against the average price the people who won't/don't use ebay would be willing to pay. Look at the bottom of this page: http://www.millermilitaria.com/pulsar2.html
, someone paid $850 for one of those Sports, about 2.5 years ago(the seller was a customer of mine, he got the Sport off ebay from Barbie). When the Sports are all sold off, they will rise in value nicely I'm thinking. Several hundred of Pulsars sent to me for repair - one, maybe two Sports.

You make a good point..but bottom line is, as LED "experts", what would you advise someone who was in the market for a Pulsar Sport TODAY, given the state of its availability, if the only options are , at the least, 475$? At 550/600$, I feel like I'd be getting ripped off and most people seem to agree with that. But 475?...maybe that is a happy medium between fair and getting ripped off? LOL

At least in pictures, I do think it appears to be an optimal fit for my style and size though...

[Planet-LED]

monologuist Wrote: And the man at planet-led.com wanted 475$ for the exact same one (refurbished case, etc.) Why is everyone trying to rip me off?!

I read through the two emails I sent you, and no where did I say that the watch case was refurbished. I have cut and pasted part of the email I sent you with regard to the condition of the watch: The watch has never been worn, and it has not been restored. The watch that you see in the pictures is the same watch I am selling. It is listed as "near flawless" because it does have some handling marks--very light marks on the case back from battery installation and a few very light marks from being in a box for many years.

As far as trying to "rip you off", I maintain a website, and am trying to turn a small profit--which is not an easy thing to do. Am I supposed to give my watches away for free?

After answering the long list of questions you gave me about the Sport that is for sale on my website--which I describe as being in "near flawless" condition, you come onto a public forum, state that my watch has a "refurbished case, etc." and accuse me of trying to rip you off. I can't speak for other sellers, but I don't respond favorably to your type of antics.

[retroleds]

....
You make a good point..but bottom line is, as LED "experts", what would you advise someone who was in the market for a Pulsar Sport TODAY, given the state of its availability, if the only options are , at the least, 475$?

At least in pictures, I do think it appears to be an optimal fit for my style and size though...

I'm thinking I have a NOS Sport I could sell you for $800. I assure you there is not another with so few handling marks from the years of storage. But seriously, the reasonable price is what someone is willing to pay, at any given moment. You can politely decline all items that are outside your price range or what you consider acceptable - no need to abuse the sellers for having different prices. They have different costs, approaches and reputations. "Planet-LED" is a dealer,i.e. he provides sales AND service. "Barbie9" is a retailer(nothing wrong with that) - strictly sales via ebay. Planet-LED has the better price and is more likely to be able to provide any service you need(links removed/added). Everyone else wants MORE than Barbie's $550, so I'm wondering why you haven't jumped on the one at Planet-LED?

Wonder if I have $475 in the P.P. account....sounds like that Sport at Planet-LED would be a good investment.

[bucko170]

no need to abuse the sellers for having different prices

Sometimes things can come across as harsh or unfair when put in writing which were not intended to be so.

Maybe it is more a case of a simple error being made and an unfortunate turn of phrase by monologuist rather than anything intentionally abusive.

I remember the excitement of being a newbie, it's easy to get carried away.

[monologuist]

monologuist Wrote: And the man at planet-led.com wanted 475$ for the exact same one (refurbished case, etc.) Why is everyone trying to rip me off?!

I read through the two emails I sent you, and no where did I say that the watch case was refurbished. I have cut and pasted part of the email I sent you with regard to the condition of the watch: The watch has never been worn, and it has not been restored. The watch that you see in the pictures is the same watch I am selling. It is listed as "near flawless" because it does have some handling marks--very light marks on the case back from battery installation and a few very light marks from being in a box for many years.

As far as trying to "rip you off", I maintain a website, and am trying to turn a small profit--which is not an easy thing to do. Am I supposed to give my watches away for free?

After answering the long list of questions you gave me about the Sport that is for sale on my website--which I describe as being in "near flawless" condition, you come onto a public forum, state that my watch has a "refurbished case, etc." and accuse me of trying to rip you off. I can't speak for other sellers, but I don't respond favorably to your type of antics.

whoah....I did not mean to lump you in with these two other vendors that I was complaining about that were trying to charge me 600$ for this watch. I think you misread the intention of what you quoted above. My point was, why are these 2 other guys charging me 600$ when this other guy has the same watch for 475$? I see why you misunderstood b/c the next line I said why is "everyone" ripping me off...my bad. I was actually considering taking you up on your offer of 475$.

I was protesting more the fact that these two vendors were selling this item at 350$ only months ago and have jacked up their price by over 200$...

As for using the word "refurbished", my understanding was that these NOS Pulsars were assembled using NOS modules but cases constructed in recent times, and that this particular one had been opened up and tinkered with at some point. I am in not a jewelry collector or afficianado as I clearly stated..I am a neophyte, so perhaps my understanding of the terms of "refurbished", "NOS ", and the like are flawed..if that is the case please edify me and I apologize for my ignorance. I didn't mean to denigrate your "product" by saying "refurbished"...

Hope that clears things up for you.

[monologuist]

no need to abuse the sellers for having different prices

Sometimes things can come across as harsh or unfair when put in writing which were not intended to be so.

Maybe it is more a case of a simple error being made and an unfortunate turn of phrase by monologuist rather than anything intentionally abusive.

I remember the excitement of being a newbie, it's easy to get carried away.

yes yes...that is spot on...you all probably forget that there are people joining these forums that don't know ANYTHING about the vintage watch business, what is fair and what is not fiar, how prices are set, what terms mean what, what is the difference between NOS, refurbished, mint...you have to admit it is not exactly intuitive or even agreed upon, any of this,...why do you think I'm bothering digging around on this forum? I'm trying to get a feel for all of this...Bucko, for one, has been extremely helpful and patient with giving me the basic lowdown on vintage LED watches 101...I think I was pretty clear about being a total newbie.

[retroleds]

OK,Ok - monologist has back-pedeled, I will admit I probably got a bit "agro"(aggravated) over the "rip-pff" phrase. It's about supply and demand - a few months ago Barbie(the sole source of these NOS Sports) wasn't talking like there was an end in sight, so some weeks a Sport went for only a little over $300. He starts talksing "this is the bottom of the barrel, no more after this" and prices start creeping up fast. Look at gasoline prices - how can they rise and fall 100% in just a few months, when the supply is much more consistent than these watches? We've seen it in other timepieces as well:
a)broken, already opened Synchronar 3 years ago,$500. Same piece today(due to the glut dumped into the stream by Howard's brothers),$150, maybe?
b)Birk's flick wrist. 3 years ago you could get one of those for $75-100, but with interest in flick-wrist watches, the prices zoomed up toward $400 - I've personally had no problem selling off a solid dozen for $340 each(down to the last two - but no I won't raise the price )
c) Orient Touch Command - these were rare as can be, usually drawing $300+ a year ago. But the primary seller of them on ebay has been noted for selling a number of really bad fakes, of fairly expensive pieces, causing knowledgeable collectors to not pick up those pieces from him, even below $200. Ironically, the collecting community is punishing the guy STILL, even though the Orient's he is selling are totally legitimate, inside and out.

Nothing wrong with being a newbie, and even the most experienced hands will have bad days and mis-reads of topics..

"Refurbished" can mean a lot of things. Example:NOS watches often will have a light oil that was applied by the manufacturer to protect the finish, and the oil gets murky after 35 years. S a seller may have to "Refurbish" the case slightly, by cleaning it with something that will remove the old oil. Buttons get sticky - they need to be lubricated, along with gaskets that have gotten dry. And battery contact that have picked up super mild oxidation just from sitting will need to be cleaned and possibly protected with a wipe-on product like "Pro-Gold". NOS isn't everything - basically a 40 year old virgin..

[bucko170]

Orient Touch Command - these were rare as can be, usually drawing $300+ a year ago. But the primary seller of them on ebay has been noted for selling a number of really bad fakes, of fairly expensive pieces, causing knowledgeable collectors to not pick up those pieces from him, even below $200. Ironically, the collecting community is punishing the guy STILL, even though the Orient's he is selling are totally legitimate, inside and out.

Interesting, I brought a NOS Orient Touch a couple of years back, how do you distinguish between genuine and fake?

The main difference that I have noted with the Orient when compared to my other LED watches is that the display digits are quite well spaced apart, although I always thought this was normal and have never suspected it to be a fake?

[retroleds]

Interesting, I brought a NOS Orient Touch a couple of years back, how do you distinguish between genuine and fake?

The main difference that I have noted with the Orient when compared to my other LED watches is that the display digits are quite well spaced apart, although I always thought this was normal and have never suspected it to be a fake?

See - a classic mis-read. I didn't say the NOS ORient's were a fake, I just alluded to the seller(was "ModernWatches", he keeps changing it as people out him on his name change). He was selling a "Spaceman" LCD that was a knockoff of the originals and apparently pissed enough people that ALL his items seem suspect.

The thread: http://dwf.nu/viewtopic.php?t=2732&highlight=catena

Just thinking about it gets me thinking unkind thoughts about those who bring us fakes. Even a carbon copy isn't an original.

[bucko170]

Yes I understand what you are saying I remember reading the thread regarding the Spaceman LCD fakes

Thanks for clearing that up for me

[rewolf]

Rewolf,
... Do you have direct experience with the Reflection watch? Is this a legit LED watch on the level of the Majestyk? ...

No, I only have a couple of photos collected from the net.

[Planet-LED]

Ed wrote:

OK,Ok - monologist has back-pedeled, I will admit I probably got a bit "agro"(aggravated) over the "rip-off" phrase.

Ed, as a seller yourself, you have every right to be aggravated by that type of behavior. I told him: The watch has never been worn, and it has not been restored. He then mentions my website by name on a public forum, tells an outright lie about the condition of a watch I have for sale, and accuses me of trying to "rip him off". I don't know what he could have done to slander me any further. This is, after all, a part of how I earn a living.

He then comes back and wants us to believe it was all a misunderstanding based on his lack of experience? Everyone on this forum can draw their own conclusions, but if you put yourself in my shoes, I think you would all agree that what he did to me wouldn't feel very good. If I were to stoop to his level, I would mention him by name on this forum for everyone to see. Then he might get a clue as to what it feels like to be on the other end of his antics.

[monologuist]

Ed wrote:

OK,Ok - monologist has back-pedeled, I will admit I probably got a bit "agro"(aggravated) over the "rip-off" phrase.

Ed, as a seller yourself, you have every right to be aggravated by that type of behavior. I told him: The watch has never been worn, and it has not been restored. He then mentions my website by name on a public forum, tells an outright lie about the condition of a watch I have for sale, and accuses me of trying to "rip him off". I don't know what he could have done to slander me any further. This is, after all, a part of how I earn a living.

He then comes back, with no apology, and wants us to believe it was all a misunderstanding based on his lack of experience? Everyone on this forum can draw their own conclusions, but if you put yourself in my shoes, I think you would all agree that what he did to me wouldn't feel very good. If I were to stoop to his level, I would mention him by name on this forum for everyone to see. Then he might get a clue as to what it feels like to be on the other end of his antics.

Alright so we've established that:
A: I misused the term "refurbished" as understood in the world of watch collecting, or at least understood by this particular community of watch collecting.

B: This fellow here seems to be VERY sensitive to such a misuse of this term because he feels that it disparages his reputation and assumes that I was mal-intentioned in using it. I apologize for being a newbie and being ignorant to such distinctions (I typed up the original post in question in a matter of seconds, admittedly not weighing the semantic pros and cons of using the word "refurbished", NOT to disparage this fellow, but to call into question the practice of nearly doubling the asking price for a vintage watch over the course of a mere few months. ) But this fellow seems to "not buy" my explanation. Perhaps he suspects that I am not in fact a complete neophyte but in fact just a hustler trying to manipulate the market prices on this watch? That I'm a minion of one of the competing Pulsar LED vendors hatching a ruse to prevent him from undercutting their market by charging a mere 475$ as opposed to 600? Is there anyone else here doubts the sincerity of my naivete, LOL? Does my original post and the watches I asked about not sufficiently support this?

C: I had no understanding of the intricacies of vintage watch value dynamics. I am not a collector. In the early stages of researching this online , I discover the ledwatchstop.com store. Mind you I have no experience whatsoever with LED watches NEW or OLD. That is why I started this whole damn thread. Anyway, Mr. Bucko170 then set me straight and gave me a brief breakdown of vintage LED watches "101" through a series of pm's. I think he can attest to the fact that I was completely clueless.

Anyway, as often happens, internet forum banter devolves into disputes on semantics....I thought I'd share with you 2 definitions of "refurbish" I found :

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/refurbish :
To rebuild or replenish with all new material; to restore to original (or better) working order and appearance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refurbished :
Refurbishment is the process of major maintenance or minor repair of an item, either aesthetically or mechanically.

As you can see, my newbie "ignorant" throwing around of this term "refurbished" is actually not so far from semantic legitimacy. Taking NOS modules and installing them with newly manufactured externals, installing new batteries, repackaging them in new boxes, these all could reasonably fit under these definitions....

So despite the fact that I admittedly didn't think twice of the ramifications of using the particular term, I actually feel a little less stupid for using it now, LOL. But you all being experts in the field, I will defer to your understanding, as clearly Dictionary definitions do not apply as rule in your reality.

[retroleds]

Ok, this thread has nothing useful to contribute by continuing.. Start a new thread without the detritus contained in this one. Collective knowledge has nothing further to be gained here. Our new member has asserted himself and moved up the learning curve; hopefully,future steps will be less controversial..

Thready going night-night