It is currently 22 Oct 2018, 20:29


Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Owners of VINTAGE DSM and LCD watches post their topics over here
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

gkilner

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 19:51
  • Location: Yorkshire, England

Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Post21 Jan 2009, 20:51

[In a fit of exhuberance, the site administrator has totally bungled this thread whilst trying to split it. The original question was regarding a very interesting Crystelonic LCD watch]]
The little brass coloured contact that you can see was very loose, I tried tightening the fastening screw but it just turns - the thread has gone on the screw and it just made it worse.

I think a new screw should fix it.
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post21 Jan 2009, 21:17

rewolf wrote:..The button contacts look a bit funny to me - the contact blade should not touch the contact pins on the board when the buttons are not pressed, but they seem to do (at least the left one).
Not odd at all - when the button is pushed the "mustaches" shaped piece will touch those pis that are sticking up. Almost identical setup as a Mido side-view LED. Some Timebands and (ironic, German made like the piece at issue) Junghans used a similar setup.
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline
User avatar

rewolf

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1863
  • Joined: 11 Jul 2004, 15:32
  • Location: Ravensburg, Southern Germany

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post21 Jan 2009, 21:37

retroleds wrote: - when the button is pushed the "mustaches" shaped piece will touch those pis that are sticking up.
Yes, that's what I meant. But it should NOT touch the pins when the button is NOT pressed (yes, double inversion should better be avoided...) - and on the photo it looks like it DOES touch.

Anyway, gkilner has probably found the problem. If the screw is lose the "mustaches" piece will not have proper contact to the board.

Is the watch not working at all, or are only the buttons not working?
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post21 Jan 2009, 21:59

Really hard to say/see if the "mustaches" is/are touching the pins in that photo - picture is a bit murky. In a properly setup Mido it is only maybe a .3-.5mm gap(10-20 thousandths of an inch). Two single springs(mustache) like a Mido seems to be a better design...at least for those who ultimately repair them. :-)
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 00:01

[quote="rewolf"]Very nice watch 8-)

Both the soluhr and Peter Wenzig's site state it was the first solar powered LCD watch. If this is true, it's at least as collectible as the Synchronar ;-)

It would be nice to dream that ;-) I already sent you info about this watch.Not only does it seemingly violate the Synchronar patents, but came years later with an American made IC from Bell and Howell,Swiss case and assembled in Germany.Perhaps as a way around the Synchronar patents that did not cover every nook and cranny of every country.It would have cost a fortune my father did not have to do that.Obviously at one point RWR no longer cared about cheap solar watches on the market claiming something new and different and only looked ahead with confidence that what he had was not really comparable to a slew of LCD solar watches entering the market,not just the Cristalonic.

IMHO it is collectible as a poor attempt at an early Solar watch with false marketing but never stood up to the test of time since the batteries/capacitor failed in less than 5 years and had no service department available after the add campaign.

Rewolf, If you don't have the ad scan i sent a while back I can send it again with several other mid to late 70,s solar watch ads.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline
User avatar

rewolf

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1863
  • Joined: 11 Jul 2004, 15:32
  • Location: Ravensburg, Southern Germany

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 00:41

Sorry Howard, I don't get your point :-?

The Crystalonic is an LCD watch, the questioned statement is "first solar powered LCD watch".
So what does this have to do with the Synchronar?

Nobody ever said the Crystalonic was earlier than the Synchronar.

You never sent me any information about the Crystalonic, in fact I have no information at all about this watch.

Which Synchronar patents does it "seemingly" violate? I can't see it has much in common with the Synchronar - despite the solar cell it is a very ordinary LCD like many others at that time.

Especially for a solar watch with limited power supply, LCD is a much better technology - just compare the size of battery and solar cell with the synchronar...
And even IF it had battery problems, no service, yada yada.... it is still the first solar LCD watch (if it's true). A quote from one of my favourite movies comes to my mind: "It ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport!"
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 02:29

I thought the more common claim was the CITIZEN CHRYSTRON was the first solar powered LCD, and their analogue CHRYSTRON was the first solar power analogue. Of course, we are talking watches, not timepieces in general....as I have pointed out before, 3(at least) different manufacturers had a solar powered(batteries assisted by a solar panel) clock out in the 1950s, most notabley Patek Phillipe.

Just looked in Pieter Doensen's "Watch". He Names:
Synchronar as first solar LED(1973, his dates, don't go nuts on me). First solar-LCD is Cristalonic(1976).
First solar-analogue: Citizen Chrystron(1976).

I question the Cristalonic as being first solar-LCD, as Citizen was producing LCDs in 1974, and had published prototype pictures of their upcoming solar-LCDs. Oddly, Donesen doesn't even mention the solar-LCD CHRYSTRON in the timeline. Just my $0.02
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 03:38

Rewolf ,You drew a ' "ATLEAST" as Collectable' as the Synchronar conclusion and posted it.The other comparison you went with was "SOLAR POWERED and a Worlds first item.Any way thats the subject here.BTW a Synchronar has still lasted 20+ years longer than any other Solar Powered watch. Not even Citizens new Ekos will break the record for ever going as long as the classic Synchronars.

Retro, Doensen learned quite a bit after his book was published from my father.He still has his Synchronar from 2003.A second edition book was to come out and tell much more detail based on my fathers work and other watch related stuff that was not in volume #1

Anywhew Doenson then asked RWR for $1,000 per Paragraph about the Synchronar in his next book and my father declined interest.The book will never come out.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline
User avatar

rewolf

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1863
  • Joined: 11 Jul 2004, 15:32
  • Location: Ravensburg, Southern Germany

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 17:32

Synchroserious wrote:Rewolf ,You drew a ' "ATLEAST" as Collectable' as the Synchronar conclusion and posted it.

I HATE being misquoted. Please read what I DID write:
Both the soluhr and Peter Wenzig's site state it [Crystalonic] was the first solar powered LCD watch. If this is true, it's at least as collectible as the Synchronar ;-)
Did you get the smiley? Guess why it's there...
Synchronar = first solar powered LED watch = collectible
Crystalonic = first solar powered LCD watch = collectible
There is no doubt that the Synchronar was earlier and was a lot more difficult to put into reality because the technology was not yet there. The Crystalonic was rather easy to do.

Synchroserious wrote:The other comparison you went with was "SOLAR POWERED and a Worlds first item.Any way thats the subject here.
No. The subject is "Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?".
I don't understand what you mean with "solar powered and a World's first ITEM"? You DO know that trees are also solar powered?

Synchroserious wrote:BTW a Synchronar has still lasted 20+ years longer than any other Solar Powered watch.
A very self-confident statement. So you are telling that there is a (=at least one) Synchronar from say 1973 still running on its original batteries, and there is no other solar powered watch (LCD or LED) from before 1993 that is still working. Wow!
I have a Junghans solar 1 from 1993 that doesn't keep charge any more, so you are right! Oh, wait - a friend of mine also has a Junghans solar 1 from 1993 and it still works...
Solar watches with supercapacitor instead of a battery were introduced 1984 by Seiko. These have the potential to last forever (whether they actually do is a different thing).

Synchroserious wrote:Not even Citizens new Ekos will break the record for ever going as long as the classic Synchronars.
How do you know? Did you take one apart to analyse the circuitry? Did you play with one of your father's gadgets and suddenly you were catapulted 50 years into the future (and back)?

And by the way - I thought this was about "who was first", not "who(se) is (the) longest"...


So back to topic:
1. The Cyrystalonic was the first solar powered LCD watch. That makes it collectible.
2. The Synchronar was 3 years earlier, but it's an LED watch.
3. The Crystalonic came "with an American made IC from Bell and Howell,Swiss case and assembled in Germany" - thanks to Howard for this interesting information. Is it thsi company: http://www.bellhowell.com/ ?
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post22 Feb 2009, 23:11

Hey sorry if it sounded like an argument rewolf but that was not the intent. The subject is Crystalonic Solar Quartz-collectible?

you answered that it was at least as collectible as the Synchronar" which is what brought it and myself in to this topic. I simply don't agree with that comparison you made.Facts are facts.If the Crystalonic was made in 1975(which i doubt) that would make it 6-7 years later than the first Synchronar prototype.If your friends Jughans from 1993(16 years) still works that is great but he has to cross his fingers for 19 more years + to equal the 15+ Synchronars still going.Tell your friend to get back with me then ;-)


I am on another forum guys and learned alot about the ecko drives and heard the stories from owners that none of their early ones worked more than 4-12 years.Even the new ones do not have a permanent supercapicitor that one can expect to last much more than 10-15 years.

So ,maybe an LCD with German made Varta batteries would be an answer to a longer life LCD :?: I certainly agree there is less power required to run them.

He made a unique product with patent that stated "or any other means of display" It was different in many ways than the other early digital watch patents which were deemed public knowlege at the time but the patent office did not realize it until after a few years.

I agree it looks nothing like a Synchronar but it is claiming to be a "Solar Quartz Solid state electronic watch.Well,someone already held patents and claim to that. If the World had a one patent system these cheats would not be let in. Like I said they came and went as fast as the marketing was done.

I will email you some other solar watch ads and maybe we can start a new topic with the images.The ads run from 1975-1979,both LED and LCD.It has the Crystalonic at 1979 and according to the copyright notice at the bottom which reads "Bell & Howell 1979".

B&H like the old movie cameras also made IC chips for watches and competed for a huge military contract with Ragen Precision Industries(bankrupt since 1984) in 1980 and lost.Are B&H not making digital cameras now or some other electronic products? I,ll check that link Rewolf but I won't go nuts over it.I think you will agree about the similar ad slogans used for a solar watch and that they are interesting to look at for those interested.Even a one American Express Credit card company offered a solar watch in the mid 70,s

Cheers.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline
User avatar

rewolf

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1863
  • Joined: 11 Jul 2004, 15:32
  • Location: Ravensburg, Southern Germany

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 00:38

I learnt a lesson: never mention the Synchronar if not neccessary, and if you do, stay serious and don't use humour or irony - else Synchroserious will start the "who is first and best and longest and has the patents" debate for the umpteenth time... ;-)


Back to topic:
The watch ads could be interesting if they allow to date the Crystalonic. Up to now everybody seems to believe it came in 1975 or 76.
Offline
User avatar

fronzelneekburm

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1616
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2004, 15:15
  • Location: Kerpen, Germany

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 02:23

Definitely awesome watch! One of the few german masterpieces "records". :lol:

Doensen's Book "Watch" states on Page 178 Paragraph N2.1)

"The first watch with solar cells and LCD is the 'Solar Quartz' by Cristalonic Time Computer GmbH of Munich, germany, who showed the watch at the basle fair in april"

*this is related to Basle Fair in April of 1976*

Well yeah even Doensen reserves the right be be human, but his material is usually excellent researched.

So the Title "first digital" (haha, pouring gasoline into the campfire. Just kidding...), "first solar" and "first solar LED" belong to Synchronar, but as rewolf said - "First LCD Solar watch" is very likey to be the title this marvelous timepiece probably owns.
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 03:04

I'm still stuck on the Citizen Chrystron LCD being before the Cristalonic.....all the technology was available and they were showing prototype pictures of it two years before the Cristalonic. At the time the Chrystron analogue was already on shelfs(1974).

Collectibility is kind of relative. I consider my Burger King Simpson's watches collectible. Ditto for the Sponge Bob Nickelodeon watches in the collectors tins. :lol: The Sponge Bob watches even have a reversible bezel, so you can have the time or a picture. And the Simpson watches talk! How cool is that? "Mmmm....Burger!"
Image :lol:
Offline
User avatar

bucko170

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3586
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2007, 11:47
  • Location: Nottinghamshire: The Home of Robin Hood..... UK

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 03:17

I brought the full set of Simpsons talking watches complete with boxes for peanuts a couple of years back, I took the batteries out to preserve them hoping that in years to come they may become valuable :!:

Who knows they may be collectible one day ;-)
Offline
User avatar

fronzelneekburm

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 1616
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2004, 15:15
  • Location: Kerpen, Germany

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 04:13

Nuuuu, the only collectible is the vintage "I'm proud to be a farmer" watch!


Image
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

: Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 04:48

Oh, I see how its gonna be, a weird watch throw down....

I'll raise one evil eye
Image

and bring this "posse" for backup
Image

Waaay off thread here, but the Raisin MAn looks like he is down with it.. 8-) :lol:
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 19:08

rewolf wrote:I learnt a lesson: never mention the Synchronar if not neccessary, and if you do, stay serious and don't use humour or irony - else Synchroserious will start the "who is first and best and longest and has the patents" debate for the umpteenth time... ;-)


Back to topic:
The watch ads could be interesting if they allow to date the Crystalonic. Up to now everybody seems to believe it came in 1975 or 76.



I guess you are being humorous because i NEVER started any who was first debate.It was created by other members and I simply attempted to correct their "World is flat thinking".Some members obviously still believe old tales more than reality but that is their perogitive.If we had all he topics on the Original "who was first debate" it would be obvious that i was not the instigator.More recently as usual someone else(Compuchron?) brought it up again after the subject was closed for like 2 years.


BACK TO TOPIC,

All we really have is a claim that they Christalonic were at Basil fare in 1976 and a common assumption that they must have been first. There were no public sales that year.Again up to a certain point we all thought the World was flat.I am with the belief that there were about 10 Solar LCD,s on the same path of going to market and some had the same American made IC chip and or module inside.

Ed, You are confusing "Citizen Cryston solar cell" which is credited by Watchtime magazine as the First Analogue watch with a solar cell in 1976.The names can get confusing and tricked me before to.


I hope Rewolf can fix the scan of the Crystalonic add from 1979.It would shed light on things a little better.I don't believe half the claims but according to the ad it was a German/Swiss technology breakthrough with a "Swiss case".

It may even be that only the IC was from USA. Like the Synchronar made in USA, only the batteries are from Germany.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

: Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Post23 Feb 2009, 19:21

Rewolf. I almost forgot to apologize for thinking i had sent the Crystalonic scans to you before.Sorry about the mixup .It was Peter Wenzig i sent it to and he told me he was not really sure where the chip was made and that it might very well have been Bell& Howell.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

Re: : Cristalonic Solar-Quartz - Collectable?

Post23 Feb 2009, 19:43

Synchroserious wrote:Ed, You are confusing "Citizen Cryston solar cell" which is credited by Watchtime magazine as the First Analogue watch with a solar cell in 1976.The names can get confusing and tricked me before to.

Howard, I wasn't confused - I own both the analogue(for sale here http://www.retroleds.com/Items/WA196.htm and the LCD Citizen Chrystron Solar. The analogue came out in 1974, not 1976. Citizen published prototypes of the LCD version in 1974, getting it to store shelves by 1976. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Nepro put out an LCD solar by 1976.

You believe Watchtime mag? You know who they claim was the first LED watch? Not trying to start anything...just reality check. I like company brochures, newspaper and magazine articles from back THEN for dating the various technologies and models. But even that has flaws. The modern ones have it all screwed up frequently. :x
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline

Synchroserious

Wizard

Wizard

  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 20:29
  • Location: St,Petersburg Florida

: Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Post23 Feb 2009, 20:46

Ed, Citizen watch did not make any LCD digital watches until 1976.Are you saying the first thing they did was make a solar LCD?

Yes Ed there are some very old articles in Watchtime that have the Digital watch history wrong just like on the internet,no about it.I have not taken the time to bother correcting them on everything that's all.

Welcome back Fronz! Yes you named 3 of the 10-12 things first or only with the Synchronar.
Membership status is unknown due to lack of communication.
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

Re: : Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Post24 Feb 2009, 03:01

Synchroserious wrote:Ed, Citizen watch did not make any LCD digital watches until 1976.Are you saying the first thing they did was make a solar LCD?
Howard - I just dated the analogue Chrystron to 1974 and the LC version to 1976. Not as you indiciated I indicated. :-) I agree with Doensen, not Watchtimes that the analgoue version came out in 1974, and I doubt it took more than 2 years to bring out the LCD version.
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Offline
User avatar

retroleds

Guru

Guru

  • Posts: 3574
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 10:34
  • Location: Horse country - Michigan,USA

: Cristelonic LCD - collectible?

Post24 Feb 2009, 21:13

Howard sent me some scans this morning....I did my best to clean them up and saved at a slightly small resolution. Indicates copyright 1979, Bell & Howell.
Image
Image

Thanks Howard...understandable that the Riehl family would keep track of all things watch and solar. :mrgreen: The scans are permanently located in the "Solar Powered" album of our DWF.NU gallery. :-)
Last edited by retroleds on 24 Feb 2009, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips.
http://www.thedigitalwatch.com - Huge database of digital timepieces. All content from ledwatches.net is going here.
Next

Return to Vintage DSM and LCD Watches

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests