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LED lighting

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Led-Time

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LED lighting

Post09 Jul 2010, 13:49

I was having a read of car magazine recently the article was about Audi's R8 sports car being available with all LED headlights, click here for a similar story - http://www.semiconductor-today.com/news_items/2010/JAN/OSRAM_220110.htm - the advances recently with LED technology replacing lamps for all kinds of illumination is fantastic from car lights, TV's, domestic lighting even simple torches (flashlights for our American friends) I bought a Cree LED torch on Ebay for £8 which runs on three AAA batteries lasts for hours and is so bright it'll burn your eyes out, even video projectors with their short life, very expensive and hot running lamps are now available with LED light sources which last tens of thousands of hours rather than two or three thousand.

It makes you wonder in the 60's and 70's if they had developed the LED back then what we may have now... :roll:
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: LED lighting

Post09 Jul 2010, 18:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode
103 years of LED light!

I'd agree the new LED torches are fantastic, I have a small 6 bulb one that uses two C batteries - WOW! The article above is very informative.
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: LED lighting

Post09 Jul 2010, 19:25

Nice topic, now you got me started ;-)

IMHO for standard lighting LEDs are not yet a good choice.

For torches/flashlights however they are perfect. I see absolutely no reason for incandescant lights here any more.
I've been a LED-flashaholic since the first white 5mm LEDs from Nichia appeared, in the beginning modding incandescant flashlights with self-made step-up circuits (the famous LT1932 started it all). In the meantime I try to keep up with new products, but now have reached a stage where all my friends and relatives already have LED flashlights so I have nowbody to give/sell them ;-). As a consequence I have to stop buying new lights now...


All high-output LED applications suffer one problem: HEATSINKING.
LED chips must be kept cool, else they have low effiacy (lm/W) and degrade very fast (only a few thousand hours instead of 30 or 50'000).
This is the MAIN problem when trying to replace existing light bulbs with LEDs: a good 15W LED can replace a 100W incandescant bulb lumen-wise, but needs a heatsink theat is MUCH bigger than the original 100W bulb. So forget incandescant replacements with more than 5W LED power.
Good LED-based light fixtures have to be designed 'from scratch' with LED heatsinking in mind!

Lifespan: yes, 30 or 50'000 hours are possible (IF the manufacturer has his processes under perfect control, which may of them DON'T), but only with perfect heatsinking. All LED replacements for standard bulbs I have seen so for DO have thermal problems and will never reach the promised lifetime (like many 'energy saving bulbs' too, BTW).

Car headlights:
This is an application where LEDs can now just be used. They are about as efficient (lm/W) as HID (Xenon), but they don't require high voltage.
The optics are more difficult than HID because you need a multi-emitter light with separate lenses for each LED - the existing 20W or 30W single-emitter LEDs are too large and thus impossible to focus (the optics designer wants an emmissive area as small as possible [no more than 2x2mm²], else the lenses become too large).
BTW: the R8 headlights have an active cooling system: a fan. The warm air is directed to the front glass to prevent icing in winter - mind you, LEDs don't emit any IR radiation, so the headlights would soon be covered with ice and snow - just one of the many side-effects to be concerned. Also considered in the design stage: what happens if you park your car in direct sunlight, heating the front lights up to maybe 80°C, and then switch the lights on (e.g. in a tunnel)? LED chip overtemperature! Solution: temperature measurement, active cooling, and: dim the lights.


For home lighting: see notes on heatsinking above.
In my home I have flourescent tube lighting with electronic ballasts (no "energy saving bulbs") everywhere. Efficiacy is 80-100lm/W *including ballast*. Lifespan is 20'000 hrs (20 years at 3hrs per day!). Cost of one 36W tube with 3200lm output: 5€ - that's about what you have to pay for 300lm (1/10th) of LED light (only the chip)! AND, most important: the quality of light (colour rendering) is BETTER than with current high effiency LEDs. Yes, there ARE high-CRI (Color Rendering Index) LEDs, but at the price of lower efficiacy (50-60lm/W instead of 100).
Conclusion: I see absolutely no reason to replace my home lighting with LEDs in the next 10 years. Flourescent tubes are 10 times cheaper, more efficient, last just as long, and they have better colour rendering than current LEDs. But I'm thinking about HID in 2 places where I want more directed light (spots) than tubes can deliver.
Ok, I like BRIGHT light at home. If you like it DIM, LEDs may already be ok for you ;-)

Please don't believe I'm an "LED-hater" - the contrary is true! I've been watching the market for many years. I have many LED flashlights (mostly Cree LEDs). At work I'm involved in designing the electronics + software for meanwhile the 4th LED surgery lamp (160'000 Lux @ 1m, 2700lm OTF [that is >4000lm LED output] 4200K, CRI 92).


For many applictions LEDs are great, but I just can't see the advantages in general lighting (yet).
Currently, the lighting companies are trying to sell sometimes pure rubbish to consumers. If they go on like this, the will ruin the LEDs reputation just like the first "energy saving bulbs" did with their horrible light. I can't stand all the bullshit written about LEDs in internet stores, on ebay, in forums, etc.
Wait another 10 years until there are established standards for LED 'bulbs' and fixtures.
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Re: : LED lighting

Post09 Jul 2010, 19:38

Yes, the Wikipedia article is really good. If you read it all, you needn't read my post/rant above ;-)

retroleds wrote:..I'd agree the new LED torches are fantastic, I have a small 6 bulb one that uses two C batteries - WOW!
If you have a "small" 6 bulb one, these are most probably 5mm LEDs with maybe 30 lumens output altogether - and if you find these WOW, try a torch with a single 3W-chip and 200 lumens 8-).
Unless with "small 6 bulb" you mean something like this: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15685 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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: LED lighting

Post09 Jul 2010, 20:19

Rewolf - I'd agree with you that LEDs may not make it to household use due to their power limitations and heat susceptibility. I think the LED car headlights are just something new to sell consumers on - many other excellent technologies already fill that use and there is abundant excess electricity with gas/diesel cars, so any energy savings is never really realized. I use a lot of the European standard T5 flourescent bulbs for my workshop and in my barn. Lumens per watt are excellent and they sell them in so many different spectrum choices, you can mix them to get just the light you find enjoyable. My torch is similar to the one you show, but they put the six LEDs into a very tight circle. Not a great general purpose flashlight but an excellent tight beam, even at 40-50 meters away....maybe a 30-45cm(12-18 inch) circle at that distance.

Still hoping that organic LED for low-mid illumination items, like watches,cellphones,indicator lights will make it to the big league.
http://www.retroleds.com - Sales of vintage LED, LCD, analog watches, parts and gadgets - repair tutorials & tips
Nov. 2022 - back in business!! BItter divorce is in home stretch, come grabs some great deals, I had to open the safe . . . damn attorneys. piss.
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: LED lighting

Post10 Jul 2010, 11:35

Rewolf,

That's not a torch that's a search light... :eek:

I know where your coming from with the different colour temperatures of lighting some of the higher K lighting looks too blue I much prefer the warmer colour temp for the living spaces and leave the more industrial looking light for my workshop.

For another interesting light subject check out the white laser - http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/watch?xl_blz_on=xl_blz_on&client=mv-google&v=5rJkOlQLA0w - and here - http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/watch?xl_blz_on=xl_blz_on&client=mv-google&v=nRY-KJMlanU - 8-)

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