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P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

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g13watches

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P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post14 May 2015, 18:10

This watch was owned and worn by John Bergey himself. We will be auctioning it the last week of July. The auction will be online accompanied by a concurrent live auction in Lancaster, PA. We will also be offering a few other vintage Pulsars, 4 P1 modules (in intermittent working order), and many Hamilton Railroad Grade Pocket Watches.

We will be very happy to consign similar items at this time. We also would love any advice or feedback from the community as we are looking to find those most interested in these unique items.

Thanks, and here is a sample pic. I will add more when I can get quality images sized for the forum.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post14 May 2015, 20:12

I am already taking a hammer to my piggy bank. This almost as good as owning the Elvis P1. :grin1: Gotta get a napkin for all the drool. Thanks for the photo.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post15 May 2015, 00:01

How about a pic of the back of the watch, as well?
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post15 May 2015, 11:52

What's the auction URL?
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post15 May 2015, 19:00

Here are a few more pics. I don't have an auction URL yet. We are still building our catalog. I will post a link to our ad for the future auction/consignment request (assuming that is allowed on this forum).

I have not had the back off of the watch to fully inspect the module. The case is stainless steel with a very thin gold plate with a leather band and steel back.

I appreciate any inquiries or input. I will do my best to keep up with postings and replies. I am a little busy building the auction catalog so feel free to ask back if I you don't get a reply in a few days.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post15 May 2015, 20:13

Here's the back with the battery covers in place. The original steel/gold band was replaced with a leather band for "comfort". We unfortunately no longer have the original band.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post02 Jul 2015, 18:39

I want to clarify the information on this watch. This watch is a PROTOTYPE not a wear-test. This is significantly more rare than a Wear-test. This information was provided to us by John Bergey. John Bergey was never the owner of this watch it was purchased from a former R & D Employee of the Hamilton Watch Co. in Lancaster PA. The auction will be on 07/31/15. http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/auctionview.cgi?lid=2476119&kwd=&zip=17545&category=0
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post01 Aug 2015, 15:01

So who where the lucky high bidders on the auction zips Pulsar P-1 modules and rare model lots ?

I believe I won the unusual Base metal P-2 and the P-4 Executive with different bracelet construction and rare case back.
Can anyone shed light on the early GF Pulsar Calculator.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post02 Aug 2015, 12:39

it would be great if people can post photos of the items offered, would be great to see as sounds very interesting. I unfortunately didn't make it on the auction myself
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post02 Aug 2015, 22:05

wzy-hman wrote:it would be great if people can post photos of the items offered, would be great to see as sounds very interesting. I unfortunately didn't make it on the auction myself


Try this. Its the completed listings of the auction. Not sure if this covers all of it but alot is there.


http://www.ebay.com/sch/reeceauctions/m.html?item=301676815741&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post02 Aug 2015, 22:13

Mr Frequency 32768hz wrote:and the P-4 Executive with different bracelet construction and rare case back.


Interesting. That looks like the early style P3 hollow link bracelet. Case back different also. :Hi:
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post03 Aug 2015, 03:58

Thanks! Hope some day that P1 is shown working
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post04 Aug 2015, 11:39

Hey you all...this board is FREE and without ADS, so at least post something every now and then to show your appreciation.


Get the latest active topics of the board here.
http://www.newdwf.com/search.php?search_id=active_topics

- Kasper -
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 00:33

This was an interesting auction. I was watching, and bidding, on all six items. I went as high as reason would allow, but came away empty-handed. Seems like everything, except the module case, went for pretty silly money, especially the last module, and the sample piece itself. $2100 for a dead watch module has to be a high-water mark for overbidding, and $4500 (plus about $900 in buyer's premiums) for the salesman's sample took on an air almost of panic-bidding, after it went past $2500 (my limit). This, especially, when you consider this wasn't
A: a solid gold case watch, B: working, C: a correct sample, D: a P1. Don't get me wrong; I would have loved to get this, but the price just spiraled out of control (I guess it might be a good sign for the economy, that there are still people out there that can throw money around with such reckless abandon). Now, I do not say that just because I don't have one in my collection; to put this in perspective, I paid $4579 for the unique, double-boxed, complete 14K P1 a couple years ago, which is everything this offering wasn't, and is of vastly greater significance, since, until it came to light, no one was even sure such a watch existed (well, one source was positive they didn't, but that's another story). Anyway, I think I spent my money to far better effect...
I had a long talk with the guy who ran this auction about this watch, and tried to get the story straight on this, but, he essentially ignored everything I told him and went with the "Bergy promo" stuff. He could not offer a single fact to support any of that; not surprising, considering it is well-documented that Bergy donated what is certainly a sample watch to the Smithsonian many years ago. The samples were originally issued with a goldfilled bracelet similar to the P2, but with a Hamilton-marked clasp. The cases, presumably from the same molds that produced the solid gold ones (I'll be able to be certain about that, when I eventually have one "in-hand"), carry no manufacturer's marks or serial numbers, and were certainly never intended to be sold to the public. They were produced solely for the purpose of showing potential distributors what the watch would look like, without tying up salable solid gold examples (which were too valuable and important, to not sell, and the whole "wear-test" story is just nonsensical, since the finished watches would be solid gold, not plated). This one, on a leather strap, is almost certainly NOT in the configuration it was in when it left Lancaster, and is thus not even a correct example. As for this being a P1, I will go out on a limb here, and state categorically that it (and the other samples) are NOT, and I base that on holding them to two standards which they do not, and were never intended to, meet. First, not a solid gold case, and second, carry no makers' marks or serial numbers. The 14K watch meets both these criteria. As a parallel example, I once saw a copper trial striking of a double eagle. Here was a coin that came off official government dies, under a mint roof...but, was it a $20 gold piece? Of course not, and the sample watches are thus not P1s, even though made under similar circumstances. If there are those who would argue the point, we can take it up on another thread; but, I will say in advance, even after I own one (which I'm sure will happen), it will still not be a P1, just a salesman's sample.
Lloyd...the two watches you mention impressed me as "pieced-together". The P2 has an unmarked case back, which will probably turn out to be an Omega part. And the strap buckle has a magnet holder for a P4, so I'm sure this watch didn't leave the factory that way. Hope it works...otherwise, there's nothing rare or exotic here. The P4 is also an odd mix of parts that never happened under Time Computer's roof. First, stainless backs never went on goldfilled cases, and this one is also from a "roundface" SS case (all these case backs have serial numbers in the 90xxxx range, and are not made by Star). The bracelet has been altered to fit the case lugs, by removing the top link, and this type of construction, which I call "folded-tab, hollow-link", is seen only on P3 cases (and the 14K Pulse-Time). I have not seen a complete SS version of this bracelet, but I'm sure they exist, as I have a single SS expansion link for one. Again, the value here is embodied primarily in the working module.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 01:12

Thanks so much to Bruce for the post. I didn't want to mention it when the auction was running since i hate to spread bad rumours without having the proper knowledge myself but Bruce summed up my thought about these pretty well. Not gonna say that all that was auctioned was "junk", but if i have to use a word for it I'd drop "dodgy". I like stories on an important watch, but some of these looked more like kinda fairytale story to me. Guess i don't need to go into details about the leather strap here... "wear test"... maybe...maybe not... For 4500 bucks a big gamble, should rather get a real P1 for that money. I guess it was something for people who already have everything (Winks at Bruce). But yeah Bruce is too smart to dump a small fortune on some snippet that COULD be legit pulsar history (or not). I'd have believed everything from prototype to "module test", but "wear test"... Well well. Maybe for people who never wore a wristwatch before? bad story is bad... Imho the module boxes were a steal (Really!) and at an average of 900 USD the dead "late" modules were not a total ripoff, but in the end nothing here was a bargain (besides the module boxes).
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 01:44

For once ( M:)W:)M ) I agree with pretty much everything Bruce has said.
The only (yes only) thing that I have a differing opinion on, is this: In Taxonomy, we have "lumpers" and "splitters". Basically a term given to people who irrationally split species so far into sub species, and varieties etc. that they become something completely different (when really, they're not) and people who on the opposite extreme lump everything into one species or genus, which again is counter-productive. I agree that this is not a P1, but I also think that it is counter-productive to just call it a "salesman's sample"...Salesman's sample of what?
In my mind, this should be called: A salesman's sample of a P1! Best of both worlds !@@!

I've told you my opinions on the rest Lloyd, and I'd love to hear/see more about the odd calculator watch.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 03:29

Since Time Computer did not make samples of any other model, here, "salesman's sample" is unambiguous, and not subject to interpretation. True, there were prototypes of other models, but the watches we're discussing were intended as examples of the finished design. I could work with "Limited Edition sample" or a variation thereof, but I think the term "P1" should be reserved for the solid gold watches that were actually sold.
On the other issue, I think I would have to align my loyalty to the "splitters". In any field, the ability to draw finer distinctions may be considered a measure (imperfect, but what isn't?) of depth-of-knowledge. If I say I have a real nice P4, what does that really tell you? Without working down the chain of characteristic differences, you can't know if I'm referring to a stainless Classic, or an 18K Executive.
And, remember what happened when our benevolent leader dumped ALL the LED watches into a single pot of goulash, just because he thought "an LED watch is an LED watch", and saw no significant difference between an Omega and a CompuChron? It took a year to repair that damage, and in the meantime, almost all of the specific information there was unfindable, and therefore useless. Finally, any search on the net works best when you employ as many specific terms as possible (think...eBay). I will never apologize, or regret for one second, my strident campaign to get that section restored to its' former, more organized and useful, state.
Wouldn't try for a moment to diminish the historical and collectible significance of these pieces, but, they are what they are, and we should call them what they are.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 07:03

"Limited edition salesman's sample" (as you suggested)is neither more split, nor lumped than "Salesman's sample of a P1" (as I suggested)!
Now you're just playing "My name is better than yours", which I'm not going to win, so call it what you like M:)W:)M
In science, neither splitters, nor lumpers are considered any more accurate than the other. What's accurate is usually in the middle.
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 09:20

All very interesting!

So if a 'salesman sample P1' and a retail 'P1' mate, will their offspring be able to procreate? :scratch:
:O`~

That would make them the same species at least, which would include sub species, variety, subvariety, forma and subforma...

;-)
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post05 Aug 2015, 11:37

767Geoff wrote:So if a 'salesman sample P1' and a retail 'P1' mate, will their offspring be able to procreate? :scratch:
:O`~


I guess it would depend on whether the retail P1 had a 25 IC printed chip module or a replaced module? I would place the replaced module P1's into a separate group, in fact I'd go as far as to say they were not even P1's anymore, as they were not actually manufactured with those modules in! But that's just the splitter in me speaking M:)W:)M

767Geoff wrote:That would make them the same species at least, which would include sub species, variety, subvariety, forma and subforma...

;-)


I guess it would be safe to say same genus, NEW species, sub species, variety, subvariety etc. as you suggested, but include the lineage of each parent in the description ;-)
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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post08 Aug 2015, 12:50

It will be interesting to analyse the two watches I won when they arrive. I have never seen this bracelet construction on a regular gold-fill Executive or Date command, ( Has anyone else ) ? Only on the Solid gold models. Pulsar did make gold fill watches with this SS circular brush case back. It came on the Executive TC too. Also interesting is the gold O ring on the Executive. What other Pulsar would that of came from. I was also intrigued with the plate and case back on the P-2 and the serial number 00008 on the Executive. I never seen the holes on the side of case the lugs either. I will let you know if the case back turns out to be from a Omega. As these two watches where in the lot with the so called salesman P-1 I thought they might be very early experimental case plate and bracelet designs. For me it was worth the reasonable punt.

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Re: P1 "wear-test" promo worn by head of R&D John Bergey

Post08 Aug 2015, 18:39

Mr Frequency 32768hz wrote:It will be interesting to analyse the two watches I won when they arrive. I have never seen this bracelet construction on a regular gold-fill Executive or Date command, ( Has anyone else ) ?



This is the only pic I can find of my first GF P3 Date Command with that older style bracelet. I have seen a few others that had this style bracelet but are not as common as the more common large fold over ends.

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Oops. Found another pic. This was the auction pic I saved before I owned it. I have since sold the watch.

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