HAMILTON Pulsars re-visited

[bruce wegmann]

Been almost a year since I announced the discovery of a Hamilton-marked P2. In that time, two new P1s have surfaced, but no mention of any other Hamilton-P2s. It just doesn't seem possible I've got the only one out there; can't solve this mystery alone! Time to dig all those P2 cases out and check...working condition is irrelevant...simple existance means everything. Serial number is good, too.

[retroleds]

Bruce - sorry for the "dumb" question(I'm not the big Pulsar fanatic I should be...getting there) - what do you mean by "marked"? Where, what?

[bruce wegmann]

On the angled surface of the case back, above the serial number, it reads "HAMILTON WATCH CO.", with "14K GOLDFILLED" below. Besides the low serial number [11871], it has the finger-tab magnet door, and a bracelet date of 8-72. It was among a group of estate jewelrey, and had been in storage at least 30 years [thankfully, without batteries; it works perfectly], so there is no doubt this specimen is completely original and pristine. I wouldn't mind posting a pic of it [if someone would be kind enough to help me do that].

[embelton]

Upload your pic here http://tinypic.com/ and then copy and paste the link on the forum...use the "img" link.

[digibloke]

Sorry for being a doubting Thomas but how can you be sure that it's not just a Hamilton QTC caseback? Maybe the original owner had a P2 and a Hamilton and mixed up the casebacks whilst changing batteries?

[retroleds]

kind of what I was mulling over digibloke. You can do some crazy things with a caseback or a crystal if they can be swapped.

[bruce wegmann]

It's true when they say "the Devil's in the details". Though the parts are dimensionally compatible, remember, Hamilton never made a solid gold watch, and all of their stainless and GF watches had stainless backs. Also, they all had a serial number AND date code on the caseback [and both of these numbers always had six digits]. The P2 back has a 5-digit serial [which is consistant with the early P2s], and no date code. No alteration could have been made to this part without damaging the goldfill [and no Hamilton caseback was simply marked "14K Goldfilled"]. In any event, I cannot imagine any possible motivation for someone to do such drastic alterations to a watch [and the circumstances under which this watch was found make it clear that it had lain undisturbed for at least 25 years; going back to a time when no one cared much about these watches one way or the other]. I will post a picure as soon as I can borrow a camera and take one, as well as a more "standard" back, and another odd variation I have seen only one of...

[The Time Computer]

P2 with Hamilton Caseback:

Really Not so rare! . . . I have seen several over the years, I have two in my collection. My serial numbers are 12286 and 12482 so we know there are at least 611 of them in gold-fill. I have no stainless models and wish I would have taken pictures of the ones I came across but I didn?t have a digital camera back then.

Months before the P1 was released the Pulsar team was making prototype P2 watches. In fact, fully working completed P2s were ready for market when the P1 was offer for sale on April 4th, 1972.

The first run P2 cases, including the stainless models had this Hamilton caseback. This was an oversight by Star Watch Case Co. who didn?t convert over to the new ?Time Computer, Inc.? name. In a memo dated November 10th, 1971, Star was asked if they had already stamped the Limited Edition P1 casebacks with the Hamilton name? Unfortunately, nobody on the Pulsar team notified Star to stamp them with the new company name and it now was too late to change them. I often wonder if the history of the Pulsar would read differently if ?Time Computer, Inc.? would have been stamped on the P1 casebacks? When the project began, it was a Hamilton watch, by the time it was released, it was a Time Computer!

By the end of December, almost two months later, the team had the first P2 prototype cases done. When they went into production some time latter, it happened again! This time it was Star who forgot to stamp the casebacks properly. Maybe because it was too late to change the P1 casebacks they just forgot? Anyway, somebody on the Pulsar team made the decision to let the first batch go, how many there were is not known.

It should be noted that all of the early P2s with the Hamilton caseback had the early version P2 module. It had only a single trimmer and is quite different in other aspects from the final 201 modules. Its PCB is much larger and the battery contacts are different too. The failure rate was a bit higher than the new duel trimmer versions.


Dennis L. Klein
Oldpulsars.com

This posting is protected under the US Copyright laws and shall not be reprinted without the permission of Dennis L. Klein.

[bruce wegmann]

It's only taken three years and five months, but, FINALLY, a HAMILTON P2 has popped up on eBay: Item no. 300404992741.

http://cgi.ebay.com/70s-HAMILTON-PULSAR ... 45f1886ae5


In that time, a whole lot of things we usually consider rare have shown up...a couple P1s, 14K Pulse-Time, 18K calculators, and so on, but only ONE of these. None showing up in any collection of any Forum member [so far, anyway; keep looking, guys!]. Admittedly, not a big-ticket item, but as a Hamilton-marked Pulsar, certainly worthy of more-than-usual attention.

"Really not so rare"...? In the strongest possible terms, I beg to differ...

[LEDluvr]

It looks to be in very good shape, and starting at $99 - not bad.
Hoepfully you or someone else here on the form will add it to their collection. Keeping it "in the family" so to speak.

[bruce wegmann]

Well, I'd be a lot more interested except for those two hideous parallel gashes across "WATCH CO.". I call these "OOPS" marks...the result of some fool using an improvised tool to remove the back [jewelers are notorious for this sort of thing]. The important thing is, the serial number is within the already-defined range, and the module is the early one-trimmer type, so there is no doubt this watch is original. Now, we just need to see one in stainless, and check out the serial number to see if it is within the same serial block, or a different one. I'm guessing all of these came off the same stamping die, and there's maybe 1000 or so total. Considering that Time Computer may have made as many as 90000 P2s, I'd call anything that represents barely 1% of the population as "RARE". How much of a premium that might add to the value is probably something to be determined by the buyer, but it's certainly a positive factor.

[LEDluvr]

Considering that Time Computer may have made as many as 90000 P2s,...

OMG! Are you serious Bruce, they made that many P2s
I knew they were popular back then, but didn't know they were that popular. Now I'm wondering, and it's a little off-topic, but what model was the most popular and how many of those were made? I'd be very interesting to see the (estimated) numbers of how many of each Pulsar and Hamilton model were manufactured. (Maybe in a seperate post ?)

[bruce wegmann]

Oh, I don't need to guess about this one...the P3 Date/Command was certainly Time Computers' flagship model (and it's likely the one most people picture when you say "LED watch", or especially if you say "Pulsar"). Probably somewhat greater total production than the P2...around 100000, if you go by the 5 known serial number blocks (and probably not more than 5% or so of those in solid gold, with 14Ks outnumbering 18Ks by a factor of at least 6, maybe as high as 10, to one). The P3 was voted one of the best watch designs of the 20th century some years ago. Still sharp and futuristic-looking, a third of a century later and counting. The 3140 is probably my second-favorite Pulsar, after the P1. Oh, and BTW, my very first Pulsar was a stainless P3, serial No. 113805, that I bought brand new in March 1974...I recently wore it to my 40th High-School Reunion [original module, still working], and it still got a few comments (all positive, for the record!).

[abem]

Bruce,

Do you mean stainless steel Hamilton marked Pulsars like this?:
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2347/d ... 00x600.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/87/dsc4167900x600.jpg

This is actually my wife's P3 ( http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6425/d ... 00x600.jpg ). I took a look at the back just for the heck of it, not at all expecting to see the Hamilton mark, but lo and behold.

A couple of possibilities:
1) This is a caseback from a Hamilton QED
2) This is a caseback from a Pulsar P2
3) This is the original caseback from this P3 (not possible, right?)

Above, you state that the Hamilton QED casebacks always had 6 digit serial numbers. This caseback has a 5 digit serial number. Apparently, early Hamilton QEDs had 6 digit serial numbers that started with a zero like this:
http://www.ledwatches.net/photo-pages/hamilton9.htm

On the other hand, it has both a serial number and also a (1974) date code like a Hamilton caseback. The serial number is relatively low, in the 15,000 range rather than the 12,000 range, but still pretty early.

So, any consensus? Pulsar (Time Computer) or Hamilton?

-abe.

[LEDluvr]

Thanks for the info Bruce.

[bruce wegmann]

Emphatic vote for No. 1. The model and date code make it 100% certain this is a QED caseback. ALL P3 casebacks say "Time Computer, Inc", along with other markings..."Pulsar", "L80 Microns", "Goldfilled L80 Microns", or "Stainless Steel"; Swiss casebacks lack the familiar five-pointed star and carry the "1973" date. So, your P3 is in need of a proper Pulsar caseback [this shows, though, that the parts are dimensionally identical and interchangeable]. Now, the serial number is a bit of a surprise. I had seen the 6-digit numbers beginning with 0, and so it just didn't occur to me there might be some with just 5 digits [I stand corrected on that]. And this IS a very early part; like the P2s, the serial numbers likely (make that, certainly) started at 10000. Looking closely at the Hamilton lettering, it seems very likely that the same punch did the "HAMILTON WATCH CO." mark on your caseback and my goldfilled P2; after all, these parts were produced in the same factory, probably on the same stamping machines!

[bruce wegmann]

A stainless P2 with the elusive Hamilton-marked case back has surfaced. This was found by a fellow NAWCC chapter member at a garage sale (I have the entire membership aware of, and looking for, Pulsar watches!). Near-mint condition; obviously put away decades ago and not worn since. Bracelet date code 10-73, finger-tab magnet door, early 201-1 module (single-trimmer, horizontal light sensor), sadly, not working. Serial number is 14384, somewhat higher than I would have expected. Now, we just need another one to see what the serial number range might be...best $20 I have spent in a while.