Who is the Score Keeper?????

[collector]

A question I have been meaning to ask for a long time, but the below post from Bruce, finally got me to asking the question of whom is keeping the score on the existance of Pulsar P1's, or any of the other rare watches for that matter; i.e. The Uranus Calculator Little1up picked up recently?

Quote from Bruce - "Actually, I'm astonished [and real happy] it went that low [US$1226]; of the 26 known P1s, only five [now six] had their original boxes, and of those six, only three still have the outer box [the real prize here]."

Who keeps track of the lucky 26 P1 owners and especially the lucky 3 who still have the magical outer box? Is there some sort of database out there / here? If another one somehow shows up how would the count be updated to 27?? etc etc You get the gist of my questions.

Just curious!!

[Lordpulsar]

Generally speaking.....

Most of the P1 colectors have access to a data base that was compiled quite a while back with all the P-1 details... This data base contains: Who, where and how much was paid for the watch along with all the serial number and other information including the box and magnets... The list has only been given to people who own or who have owned a P-1 at some stage. While the list is only as good as the information put forward by the owners.... It is NOT 100 % accurate and maybe more P-1's are out there than are kown on the list....... But in General terms, I'd say the list is pretty accurate...

The list is updated by the P-1 owners and due to the value and sensitivity of watch, unfortunately the list is not available for general view..

[retroleds]

Good question COLLECTOR.....I've often wondered how many of the rarer items are really just changing hands between collectors, giving an impression that there are more of the items out there then there really are. Collectors sometimes are secrative about what they have because they worry about getting robbed/burglerized. Myself, I have a very nice safe, but I keep my nicest stuff(jewelry,watches, antique pistols) in a safety deposit box at the bank because I worry about some a_holes bringing the right equipment to make off with the safe!!

[www.digitalwatches.de]

Hello Collector,

I also have this list showing these 27 names of persons possessing a P1. But I am very doubtful that only such a small amount of these watches should have survived till today. As you all know in total 450 watches were produced and sold at that time to people who were able to afford such a watch, mostly rich and sometimes famous people. Especially this type of client keeps such a watch in their hand or in the family even if it is not in use further on. There is no need for them neither to sell such a watch nor to make some money by melting the gold case. That is why I am pretty convinced that most of these watches are still in private hands.

Other comments?

Greetings

digitalwatches

[ledwatch]

You're so right, and Im sure most of us collectors have laid awake at night wondering what is out there, I know I often wonder what is lying around in the sock drawer of some 250 million US citizens!

There are a couple of major 'score keepers' on this forum already, but the truth is that they just havent a clue what is really out there, and the 'knowledge' that they keep on giving forth is merely their own guesswork.

About ten years ago there were lots of Japanese led collectors around, I dont see them using this forum, but they must have a lot stashed away, who knows what?

[Lordpulsar]

Can I just clarify one point please...

The 26 or so people "stated" to own a P1, do actually own the watch, so this part is correct, but other than that..(you are right).. it is guess work! I also have seen paperwork (original documents from TCI) listing a figure of 400 production P1's in 18k... 50 spare cases and Amazingly 60 in 14k Solid Gold and some in Gold plate.. The document was not mine but I did hold it in my hand and it was clearly an internal memo.. As far as I know ! None of the collectors has seen or own anything other than the solid 18k model.

As far as keeping the list upto date.. I've kinda lost interest a bit, so there maybe more ?

[Seer Taak]

Can I just clarify one point please...

...... figure of 400 production P1's in 18k... 50 spare cases and Amazingly 60 in 14k Solid Gold and some in Gold plate..........As far as I know ! None of the collectors has seen or own anything other than the solid 18k model.

As far as keeping the list upto date.. I've kinda lost interest a bit, so there maybe more ?

This may be a bit of a dumb question, but could that mean that a mint GF P1 (if it was ever produced) might actually be rarer, and more expensive, than an 18k one? My reasoning goes like this - Even though any 18k gold watch has a greater intrinsic value than a GF version (because of the value of the precious metal content), wouldn't this still be only a fairly small part of the $1000's prices P1's fetch?

[Lordpulsar]

There are two types of value you can put on an item like this... One, its actual value as a GF or Solid gold watch and its intrinsic value to a collector , which most of the time, out-ways the actual value people pay for these items.. In answer to your question if a Gold-plated or 14kt P1 is out there... I can only say.. "maybe" ?? I really dont know , but I do know what I read on this piece of paper.... My own theory is there could be some non- 18k solid models that were made for sales reps and marketing people at Pulsar.... I emailed John Bergey some years ago and I have spoken to 2 or 3 employees that used to work for Pulsar, but their memories are very scetchy.. If one showed up in a few years.. it wouldn't supprise me.... I did find a guy in Sweden that has a Solid 14kt Calculator and that isn't documented, so anything's possible ?? If a 14kt solid P-1 showed up on Ebay.... I still would think crazy bidding would take place !.. may even be worth more than a standard 18k model !

[bruce wegmann]

We know at least a couple base-metal P1 cases exist, because they showed up on eBay a year or two ago. No one is admitting they have a 14K one, but they might exist [if they didn't go into the melting pot along with most of the 18K ones]. Given the choice, I would never pay more for a 14K; the 18K was the first offered to the world, and will thus always have a special place in history. And I can say, with almost total certainty, that in the coming years, others will surface in the estates of owners who at present have no interest in selling, or have been left sitting in the safe deposit box so long they have been forgotten [How many? At a guess, maybe 12 to 20, over the next ten years or so...]. A parallel is the database available to coin collectors [called the "Condition Census"], that documents the condition of every coin sent to a professional grading service [there are three major ones]. It shows date, denomination, distinguishng marks, and overall condition in a serial-numbered, sealed case. Over the last 25 years, they have cataloged the great majority of high-condition and/or rare coins in the U.S., and firmly established the relative rarity of any given specimen. We have the advantage that our collectible is already serial numbered [except, for some unknown reason, Omega, who never numbered their LED watches, but their production records should still exist], so, in principle, a similar database could be established. Owners could remain anonymous; the important thing would be to document the existence of a particular watch. Eventually, the serial blocks could be estimated, and at least some of the production records re-constructed. In case of theft, the number could be made public, and no stolen watch could be sold on the open market [a great benefit to everybody]. My guess is that most of the big LED collectors have at least some idea of what's tucked away in others' collections, and estimate their values accordingly. Ultimately, though, the price [what's asked], and value [what's paid], will always be subject to the laws of the supply-and -demand market.