P3 modules

[Retrowatch]

Hi, I've been shopping around for a new P3 (date command) and I've noticed that they have (at least) two different types of module. One is black and looks like a Pulsar II module with two reed switches and the other is a green one (looks less complicated). Are either of these preferable? Do they both have old school (dotty) LED displays? Also could it be that the green one is a more modern autoset module?

I'd really appreciate some advice before I buy one

[Lordpulsar]

Retro

There is absolutely no difference between the green plastic and black plastic cased modules other than colour. All the components are the same ! I think on the whole, the green cased modules are more rare but this isn't significant in terms of collectabilty or value. The P-3?s never came in auto-set and always had displays that were made in dots..

Hope this helps?.

[Planet-LED]

I remember seeing a green module, and it looked more like it had Sanyo components. I don't know if the two companies ever had a relationship or not?

[bruce wegmann]

Sanyo manufactued the green display used on the Pulsar Dress model [also on the CompuChron]. Other than that, I am unaware that Sanyo sourced any components for Time Computer. As for the color change of the movement ring from black to green, I've only a notion as to why it happened [some molders' manufacturing whim, or maybe error, or to show they were from a new manufacturer; totally guessing here]. It is known with greater certainty when it happened; sometime in mid-to-late 1975. Green modules are also known in the Ladies' Pulsar and P4 models. I have recently seen a fair number of 18K Pulsars; every one had a green module...an interesting feature, though the use of green modules was not restricted to the solid gold models. Except for green, no other colors are known to have been used.

[notonly1]

Retro

There is absolutely no difference between the green plastic and black plastic cased modules other than colour. All the components are the same ! I think on the whole, the green cased modules are more rare but this isn't significant in terms of collectabilty or value. The P-3?s never came in auto-set and always had displays that were made in dots..

Hope this helps?.

Although there is some question as to whether they ever came in new watches from Pulsar or were made by someone on their own (possibly a Pulsar employee), P3 auto command modules do exist. They used P4 circuit boards that were adapted to the P3 plastic movement rings. I have 2 of them myself, Bruce Wegmann has 1 or 2 and I know of several others. I suspect that this is what Retrowatch meant when he said it "looks less complicated".

[Retrowatch]

Hi, I got a new P3 at the weekend and it's got a green module (3013 -301). It doesn't look like I expected (the green module I was thinking of may have been a refit - it certainly looked like a later model). Basically the module in my new watch is identical to the black module in my old watch although in my old watch the quartz crystal fills the lozenge shaped hole at the top (and has a metal cap over it on the battery side) and on the green one it only fills about half the hole and has just been glued in.

[CompuChron2]

Hi,
I have a P3 with an AUTOSET module, it looks original , made in USA , works great BUT has bar digits (no dots).
I 've been told it's not original (by the guy from oldpulsar.com), but I wish to know where does that module comes from. He told me Sanyo , but I've never seen a Sanyo module like that.
One big difference with a standard P3 module is where you usually find the quartz , it's empty!! But working!!
Anybody has a clue for this?

Olivier

[Majestyk]

Does it look something like this? In the case of this module, the quartz crystal is at the bottom.

[CompuChron2]

Yes it is the one!
now tell me where does it come from!!!
Thanks
Olivier

[ledwatch]

Its a genuine Pulsar module.....BUT.... its from a ladies Pulsar led watch. It has been grafted onto the P3 plastic with some micro soldering. The reason that someone has used a ladies module to repair this is that you can buy a lady Pulsar led for a fraction of the cost of a mans model.

The positive side is that you sort of have a Pulsar, the negative is that the display is smaller on the ladies module.

[bruce wegmann]

I have a couple of these also, and the construction is identical, suggesting they all came from a single source. The pocket for the quartz crystal is milled into the movement ring, so the builder had at least a basic knowledge of machine shop tools.
But look closely; these are not Ladies' electronics. It's concealed a bit by the angle, but the digits are taller; tall enough for a Dress model, though this is not a Dress module, either. The conclusive clue is on the lower right corner of the circuit board; the two truncated metal contacts protruding slightly beyond the edge of the board. Those are the contacts for the Auto-Command switch, and thus this is, by definition, a P4 circuit board.
The serious question that needs to be raised here is: Why would any rational person go through a great deal of effort and risk to tear apart a WORKING P4, and then take the not inconsiderable risk [of doing irrepairable damage during the process], of re-assembling it on a P3 movement ring? The P4s were all more expensive to begin with, and it makes no sense at all to me that anyone would cannibalize more expensive watches to fix less expensive ones. UNLESS, one was in a position where there were plenty of P4 modules around, but no P3s. In that case, if the repair did not go well, you could just throw the guts away and pull another P4 module off the shelf, until you got it right. I can't imagine this situation existing outside the factory or a service center, about the time Pulsar went out of existance [I suppose a single individual could have ordered a bunch of P4 modules, and done these in their garage, but that would have involved a significant cash outlay, and then the problem of not being able to casually throw away the damaged ones comes back]. It is even possible that, had Time Computer remained in business, these would have been the next logical step in the evolution of the watch [the public had long since recovered from the novelty of the setting magnet; that is why Time Computer developed the Auto-Set modules in the first place].
We may never know with certainty how these came into being, but I am not at all convinced they are as illegimate as some would suggest.

[Majestyk]

Yes, the numbers on this were large like a P3, but not dotted. There seems to be two tiers of P3 remake (or fake) modules. One is the kind that have recently been put together by techies like folks in this forum. The other is this one. These ones are all built the same with that exact trimmer, although some do use Pulsar ladies parts, and they've been around for quite awhile. There was a lady on Ebay who was selling a Pulsar P3 that she purchased in the 70's and she said it was serviced in the late 70's or 80's. She also didn't normally sell watches. I could tell through the lens that one of these modules was in it. Now maybe she did buy it on Ebay and resold it but I don't think so. She sure didn't seem to know much about the watch.

Maybe some company in the late 70's and 80's had access to Pulsar parts and did repairs to them. Who knows.

[bruce wegmann]

I seem to have a pretty clear memory of reading another post somewhere on this site of a P3 owner who says he sent it back to the factory to have a problem fixed, and it came back repaired in this fashion. If that poster reads this, I would invite him to give us the full details of that incident, because if that really happened, it would settle this controversy once and for all, and fully legitimize this variation of the watch. I would not worry that everyone would start scrapping their P4s to build auto-set P3s [it would still be an irrationally risky and unprofitable thing to do]; the original watch will always be more collectible and valuable.

[CompuChron2]

Hi all,
thanks for your answers , it looks to me like it has been factory made at one point ,either in the factory as new or for repairs , it seems like they are too many of this out there to be one man's work.
And one thing is sure , mine has not been repaired like this recently because I bought it untested on ebay and it worked perfectly after putting two batteries + spacers.
Maybe we could check the serial numbers to see if they are close?
mine is :
277397 and it 's a P3 14KT goldfilled
The clasp is factory stamped 1-75 is it a commun mark on bands?

[CompuChron2]

[ledwatch]

I know one thing for dead certain - the soldering job on that particular one in the photo is definately not a factory or proffesional, whoever did that soldering is a bodger - that one didnt leave Pulsar like that!!

[Majestyk]

I don't think any of us are stating they are from Pulsar. At least I'm not. I just think someone back in the day had access to parts and did repairs. Maybe when people took these to certain department stores, they went to this person/outfit. Who knows.

[azimuth_pl]

There is no need for a long dispute. The solution is easy:
I have also seen many of these on eBay and most of them from original owners. They always mentioned that the watches were serviced in the late 70's. Therefore these are original Pulsars serviced by Pulsar or a person authorized by Pulsar. Bear in mind that dotted P3 modules were not produced long after the P3 dissappeared from the market. Perhaps a lot of service modules was produced and stored away but in economical terms producing old P3 parts later than 1975 would not be efficient money-wise and technology-wise (would you produce a 286 PC processor today?). Thus if a 1974 P3 with 3 year warranty failed in 1977 it had to be serviced and fitted with P4 module parts which were the closest fit. Also when Pulsar closed in 1978/9 the company had to fulfill their 3 year warranty period thus watches serviced until 1981 were repaired with parts that were stored away and given to the techie guys from Pulsar. Not all parts were used and still today they appear on eBay as one major collector knows these repair guys from Lancaster who were obliged by Pulsar to repair the watches during the warranty period long after Time Computer ceased to exist.

[The Time Computer]

After several request by collectors and enthusiasts to comment on this subject, I have these ?FACTS? to present in hopes this will put an end to the speculations on the ?Frankenstein? P3 modules.

I have thoroughly researched these retrofitted modules for years and have documentations and testimonies from the only people on this great planet who can answer the question. I guess somebody will always want to deny the facts so I will leave it up to you to consider the source.

Time Computer ended the Pulsar manufacturing project late in 1977. The entire stock of completed product (boxed and ready for sale) was sold to a liquidator. All service centers around the world were shut down and ordered to return all inventory so it could be added to the inventory at the plant. The Factory Service and Warranty for all Pulsar watches worldwide would now be done only at the factory in Lancaster, PA. Several months into the program there were worries that they might run short on some parts. In order to insure that all warranties could be satisfied for the three-year period, the 50-60 thousand watches sent to the liquidator were purchased back by HMW (the parent company of Time Computer). Along with the parts inventory left at the plant, the collected inventory from the Service Centers and the leftover watches now back in hand there were plenty of parts for the warranty program.

All service & warranty work was done by the same Time Computer personnel and management team until March 31, 1981 when the last watch was repaired at the Factory Service Center in Lancaster. This officially ended the responsibilities of Time Computer, Inc. (manufacture of all Pulsar watches).

With plenty of parts and enough personnel to continue, the program continued privately by the same person who headed the Factory Service Center for TC. Now at a different location in Lancaster, the new Warranty & Service Company ("The Watch House") implemented a Re-Warranty program that lasted another three years. This new three-year warranty offered to some selected models, put many watches in warranty until 1984. Ironically, the privately owned Sevice Center closed March 31st, 1984, exactly three years after the Factory Service Center closed.

Now, the answers to the question! In a statement from the only man to head the Factory Service Department before they closed. The only man who managed the Factory Service Center formed in 1977 after they closed and the man who owned and operated the private Service Center that closed in 1984!

My question to him was this:

1. Did anyone at the factory or under your control, including your private company ever alter any modules?
2. Did you ever use parts from a different module to repair or replace any part for repair?
3. When was the supply of P3 modules depleted and what was the procedures to repair any P3 Pulsar watch after the modules were depleted?

? No modules were ever modified in any way from original, no parts were ever used to make repairs to any factory module at the plant or at my private facility. No watch under the control of Time Computer was altered, just repaired or replaced. After the last of the P3 modules were depleted in 1983 all P3 watches that could not be repaired were sent back at no charge. The only procedure was to repair the original module with original parts or replace it with an original module?

If anyone has a P3 or Date II Pulsar watch that has a module with a line display and/or the Auto-Set feature, it is NOT original! I know of many people over the 18 years of collecting these watches who have repaired or replaced modules with parts from anything they could get to work. We all know how frustrating it has been looking for someone to repair these old watches.
Nobody can blame anyone who was creative enough to improvise and have the skills to resurrect any Pulsar! I think we all have a problem with those who knowingly alter a module and not reveal it?s not original, just to make a buck. These ?Frankenstein? modules are great for an everyday Pulsar to wear, I have a few myself!

[azimuth_pl]

Great news Time Computer!
In that respect, all these Frankies that are pretty common and made by the same person, must have been repaired by somebody without any knowledge from Pulsar or the Service Center. Perhaps some watch stores decided not to return the parts and kept them for future repairs or maybe some former Pulsar technicians made repairs at home from the parts they gathered thru the years while working for TC.

[Majestyk]

This doesn't surprise me, but someone, probably in the late 70's or early 80's, had access to Pulsar parts or did not return parts when HMW bought them back, because like azimuth_pl stated, the "Frankies" have been around for along time. This is not a recent thing where gurus from this board have put these together (not the Frankies I mean) and no one would have been doing this when LED watches lost most of the popularity and that would have been between 1981 to 1996. I've seen too many of these on Ebay by "joe six pack" types who know nothing about watches and the modules are almost all identical; most of them being derived from P4's. It would be interesting to find out where this individual got all the P4 parts from. And why would he have needed to fix so many P2/P3 watches? I mean the only reason to dismantle one and put P4 innards in it would obviously be a non repairable fairlure and the only thing I can think of is it would be due to the oscillator component(s), which has a high fairlure rate, on these modules. (Thanks to Phil of ledwatches.net that is no longer the case). I doubt there were that many main IC failures.


The next time I see one on Ebay from someone who says they had it repaired, I'm going to ask if they remember who did it.

MJ

[CompuChron2]

I agree , despite all your infos Time computer, this remains mysterious.

Why would someone make a risky and time consuming repair with out of date watches in the 80's?

And it's hard to say how many where done but many of us has one like this , meaning there are hundred(s) of these "frankies" out there...

Can't we check serial numbers to see if they are in th e same serie?Probably not if they are repairs but who knows?