Replacement Crystals (Timescreens)

[gjlelec]

On a previous thread i moaned that Omega had thrown us (LED enthusiasts) to the dogs by refusing to re-stock white logo crystals and by increasing the cost of the gold logo version by over 600% (gits). I claimed (hoped) that someone out there new how to re-print/ re- create the crystals. AND BOY WAS I RIGHT :D A forum member contacted me, i sent a crystal that had been polished so the logo/ legend was completely missing and this week i've received it back. I would defy anyone to tell it apart from the original. Now i know i should post a pic but i haven't perservered and worked out what to do to achieve that, but i will do that within the next few days, meanwhile if anyone wants to pm me their email address i'll sent it straight away, i was truly blown away by the result

[markos]

That's excellent. If you go to tinypic.com you can upload images for free and then get an 'img' code. By pressing the 'img' button when you post a reply you simply paste that 'img' code and hey presto!

Anyways, has the logo been screen-printed on the underside of the crystal so it can't be scratched off?

[gjlelec]

Hi Markos, thanks for the advice, i'll try it later in the week when i get some spare time. The logo/lettering are printed ON the crystal as per the original. I think printing on the underside would be a great idea but don't know how the filtering properties of the ruby glass would affect the logo

[markos]

Doh! Forgot that the glass isn't clear but coloured!

[gjlelec]

It can't be impossible to achieve as i remember a forum member informing me that one manufacturer (maybe Pulsar) has already done it.

[Seer Taak]

You're right, but I think Pulsar got around the problem by printing on the underside of the first, clear, layer of a laminated crystal. I'd say that would be very expensive to replicate for small orders.

[gjlelec]

here's the pic of the reprinted crystal. Any thoughts on this first attempt

[markos]

Looks very good. I'd like to see what it's like compared to an original, as the straight lines waver ever-so-slightly, but that's just me and my designer's eye and being critical. Overall I think that's a great attempt... can't be easy screen-printing something that size.

[retroleds]

I'm with Markos - very good but not quite passable..."O" and symobol have small flat spots, charecters have irregular in line widths. I know who made this for you, I'm willing to bet he will keep nibbling away at it until it is perfect.

[gjlelec]

Your right little1up, there is some room for improvement but Al didnt even have an Omega crystal to copy, only pics. I don't think he''ll rest until its right either. considering thats the first attempt, i think it came out bloody good. Would you prefer this crystal or a scratchy original? If that was on a watch you'd never notice. Bruce Wegmann explained what happens in the original procedure using Glassfrit, whilst i believe Al will improve the lettering on the next attempt, i doubt whether the way the original letters stand higher than the crystal can be replicated using this printing method. Whats the alternative for a white logo crystal, who's replicating the original process

[retroleds]

Gary, I'd(I think) notice it in a heartbeat on the watch...so I'd prefer a unscratched crystal without the logo. Again, this is NOT to take anything away from Al's work - like you said, it was his first(I've seen another of his,different brand, that was just gorgeous), and I am sure his technique will improve. It's the mark of all good craftpersons(really anyone who takes pride in their work) - always strive for some,small improvement, lest you settle for mediocrity.

Ed Cantarella(a/k/a) little1up

[retroleds]

I just received an email with a much higher resolution picture of Al's work - it looks perfect there. Apparently the picture we are seeing is the victim of digital loss (my apologies for the "critique" Al ). I won't take the liberty of posting up the picture; hopefully, Al will.

[gjlelec]

here's the hi-res pic

[gjlelec]

And here one for you Pulsar fans-same resolution- original not reproduced, looks like Al is already doing a better job than Pulsar :D

[bruce wegmann]

Font match looks OK, but the height looks a bit on the short side [probably just a few thousandths...a couple of hundredths of a mm, but the devil is in the details!]. Also too thick; the "a" looks downright puffy. There must be hundreds of dinged-up but readable crystals out there to serve as exemplars [I must have dozens!]; if your guy has the equipment to get this far, surely he should be able to get a few, do the measurements [for position, too], and get it perfect [a worthwhile effort, because nothing less will really do...].

[collector]

Just a quick question - is duplicating Omega's logo and trademark legal? After all, they are still in business.

[gjlelec]

Strictly speaking, yes it is, but considering

A- Omega no longer produce the crystals, so you are not depriving them of income or competing against them

B- The crystal shown was provided by me and returned to me FOC, ie no profit was gained

C- the crystal is ALMOST to the quality they produced, (had to put that in for Bruce) is clearly described as a reproduction, not an original

D- Omega couldn't give a flying f*** about LED watches

E- My father owns a large prestigious lawfirm and he says we're OK as long as we don't sell the crystals :D

[retroleds]

Strictly speaking, yes it is, but considering
A- Omega no longer produce the crystals, so you are not depriving them of income or competing against the

Copyright infringment also covers "loss of potential, future profit." Omega could claim that they were taking a break for a demand to build up, before ordering a few thousand from a supplier to sell. Copying a copywritten item and distributing it for free is still infringment, ae.g.Napster. If I copy your $2000 Rolex and sell it for $5, I haven't just screwed you out of a $5 sale, I have screwed you out of the money you spent on design, research and advertising, may have damaged your reputation against OTHER future sales,etc.....in addition to the possible immediate sale. STOP talking about it in a public forum and carry on as your conscience dictates..... owners of stock(all original parts) Omegas will be eternally grateful for any ceasation in "situations" that undermine value and reputation. Obviously, any Omega you would sell in the future will now be suspect. :oops:

I spent 12 years working for a licensed, U.S. Patent attorney - my brother. 8)

[T-bird]

Some lawyer's logic.

After all, that's what I am, even though I'm not working as a lawyer.

"Restoring a historical artifact involves various techniques that are all aimed at the preservation of its value. This may include reproduction of a part of it as well, especially when a replacement part is not available. There's no violation of any copyright here because the part has not been produced for a commercial purpose but restored to its original shape."

I guessed (better I'd sworn) that my effort to create a new "restoration tool" could have been seen as a threat. I just think it is a cool way to get that final touch to have a perfect timepiece instead of a good one. It is the same question that surfaced a few weeks ago about replacement modules. Just a way to restore a watch. You have the choice, keep it all original or restore it to like new condition. Guys, we're not talking medieval paintings here, just mass produced electronic watches of a few years ago.

What's the problem?
No one is earning mega $$$ by selling reproduced glasses without permission from the manufacturer. This is MY watch and I have the FULL right to restore it, so I decide to give it a restored case, a restored glass, a restored logo - or just crush it under the wheels of my 4000 lbs car.

Anyway, I think this subject has already taken the wrong direction.
I was thinking about posting on the general forum about this restoration technique, hopefully to help some fellow collectors and enthusiasts, but as always good intentions are the tiles on the road to hell, so let's drop it before Omega (pardon, the Swatch Group) sends me some black dressed guys in a black SUV to take me away forever :D

Too bad, it was really promising but I never meant to fool anyone.

Al. :(

[retroleds]

It's a fine line..and yes, they are just mass produced pieces of consumer goods. Some level of customizing should be acceptable. Are we at the point where we are glad that they are working and now want them to look good too? If so, Al, your work is a welcome breath of fresh air. Infinitely more do-able than replacement modules. The legal concerns are probably not a realistic concern....I was mainly doing some counterpoint to Gary's idea that it was entirely wide open. Now, if you set up a major business like www.replacement_led_crystals.com I would expect the remains of Omega,.Pulsar, or whoever to come and beat on your [back]door. On an piece by piece basis while you are doing your regular job, I doubt you would ever even register on their corporate radar.

Please, Al, don't stop. And don't crush your watch man, there are laws against that kind of thing!

[gjlelec]

Little1up your statement that "any Omega i might sell would be suspect" has one major flaw. Unfortunately i am badly addicted so only sell Omega /Longines analogue watches (to fund my addiction). As far as Omega LEDs go i'm from the Gordon Gecko school of thought "Greed is good" Selling or buying an LED with a good non original crystal is-to my mind, much more preferable than a crappy scratched original. Its like driving a scratched car because you dont want to touch the original paintwork. To put peoples concerns regarding copyright infringement into context, if Omega cant be bothered to try and stop the "looky looky" men selling replicas all over the Balearics, i cant really see the Board of Swatch Group shitting themselves in case Al prints another crystal. Not to discuss a refurbishment method that may help countless enthuisiasts on a public forum is ridiculous. Whats left of the originality on a Synchronar after you've got it to work

[markos]

Al, keep up the good work. Us watch fiends really need people with these skills. As for the legality ? even if you offered this service to many ? I'm sure it's fine, I can't believe whoever owns Omega would care one jot about this... in fact it's good for their business if you ask me. And no car manufacturer has ever had a problem with someone restoring a car to it's original specification...

Anyways, as I said, keep it up, this ability to restore a brand name or logo to a crystal is worthwhile and very welcome! :)