Seiko M159 - Button Problem

[LEDluvr]

Hi All,
I picked up this 1977 Seiko M159 in very good condition.
I cleaned up the battery contacts and inside the case and put in a fresh battery. It runs fine and keeps time, but the front two buttons are non-responsive. The contacts look clean, not sure what else I can try to get them to work? Maybe bend the 'leaf spring' contact under the buttons up or down to create a better contact?
The side button works fine......

[Old Tom]

Take the two front buttons out and clean out the muck under them!- held by two tiny E clips, a bit scary but not too difficult. Most Seiko non-responsive button problems are caused by muck building up under the button restricting the travel- quick check is to power the module outside the case and prod the buttons to see they do work. If not this get the tech manual off (digitalwatchlibrary.com) and check the leaf spring is in the correct way round- pretty certain the M159 had a paddle shaped double ender that could go in either way round, but only one was right.

[LEDluvr]

Thanks Old Tom. I've cleaned out a few Seiko buttons before, the later models with the buttons on the side. I checked out these front buttons from the inside and as you said, they're the same -with the e-clips.

And yes, it has a paddle shaped double end spring where these buttons make contact. It looks to be in the correct position.
I'll start with the button removal/clean up and report back.

[LEDluvr]

Mission Accomplished!

Thanks for the tip Old Tom, that's all it was - buttons apparently moving down fine, but not travelling the whole way due to the accumulated under-surface crud. If only all repairs were so straight forward.

Another question: When I first powered up the watch it was running fine, except for the button problem above. I notced that at first it was running 17 seconds fast per day.. but over time it adjusted to 10 seconds, then to near spot-on time keeping. I've noticed this happens sometimes with both old Seiko LCD's and LED watches.
What accounts for that? The q.c. adjusts as it 'warms up' after being dormant for years or decades?

[LEDluvr]

Okay... it looks like the saga is not over afterall.
Now the bugger stopped running! I looked at it today and the screen is blank.
But when I press the front left button - whala - the display shows up dark and crisp. I took out the module, re-cleaned all the metal contact parts I could identify, put it back in the case and it's the same.

What did I miss?

[Claven2]

Hve you tried changing the battery?

[LEDluvr]

Yes I did - same thing. No display at all. But if I press the front left button then the display will light up and seconds start counting. It seems to be a contact problem but I cleaned all the contact points again. And if it was the q.c. I don't think it would come on at all.....

[Old Tom]

You are not going to like this but.... this fault is typical of battery contamination on the flexible plastic circuit board. It can be cured by completely dismantling the watch (not that difficult, but be careful lifting the flexi circuit board) and washing the board in distilled water a 2/3 of times (change the water!), dunking quickly in isopropyl alcohol to suck the water out from where it shouldn't be, dab drying with a tissue and finally warm air drying (I put modules on a piece of tissue on a radiator at about 50C). I've cleaned three very old LCD watches in the last week showing this sort of symptom (a Citizen, a Blue Max and a Sicura) and all are behaving properly.

Oh, one other thing before you start- check the module's current consumption (usually 3-7 microamps)- mucky circuit boards will normally push this way up due to alternate current paths.

[LEDluvr]

Thank you for the detailed response Old Tom.
I'll have to say a few prayers to see if I can muster up the courage to toally disassemble the module Can you tell me how to remove the setting stem on the side?
As you know, it goes through a hole in the edge of the caseback. The module can't be seperated from the caseback until the stem is removed..

[Adam]

Tom
When you say clean in the water do you mean just dunk and shake a little or use a cotton bud or something similar. I have a A169 with similar problems id like to try your solution with.

thanks

Adam

[Old Tom]

@Ledluvr- You really do need to get the tech manual off Adam's site (see bottom of next post)- the button release method is detailed in this.

@Ummedia- Washing- remove circuit board from watch, place in distilled/de-ionised water for two/three minutes, remove and brush lightly with a medium stiff paint brush, rinse in same water and then repeat procedure in fresh water. Next dunk in isopropyl alcohol briefly (no more than 5 seconds) and dab dry. Finally hot dry for about 1 hour to remove any possible trace of water. This will remove leakage residues (which are highly conductive) but not corrosion (the green/blue gunge). If you have a module with this sort of contamination then you need to remove it with a dilute organic acid- Formic acid (sold as lime scale remover- Kilrock liquid in UK) is good. I dilute the acid by about 60% with distilled water- neat acid is just too vigorous and can quite easily lift/break corrosion weakened traces while the dilute stuff is far more gentle. In any case it should not take more than 45 seconds to remove the corrosion. Rinse as above but add an extra wash stage to get rid of the acid.

And finally- did another one last night using the procedure above (with the acid stage)- a Tissot F1 with a ESA 4311 module which are notorious for electrolyte contamination due to the somewhat "porous" circuit board which absorbs the electrolyte and stops the watch dead (the other really evil example of porous circuit board is the Buler Gamma/Tissot TS-X1/2/3/4/5 anadigi watches.

Sorry, another finally, don't be tempted to leave the board in the acid for too long (that is over two minutes) as it will almost certainly start to react with the flux residues yielding an almost clear mildly conductive gel all over the board- if you do manage to do this lighter fuel (petrol) on a cotton swab and patience is just about the only cure I have come across

[LEDluvr]

Wow Tom - you really know your stuff. (I think you mentioned that you used to be a watch service tech?)
Thank you for the info.

[Adam]

Tom as usual an excellent complete reply. I'll give it a go later today and let you know how I get on.

many thanks

Adam

[Adam]

Ah I forgot the A169 is attached to the plastic casing. I am trying a D138 instead. Its on the radiator now!

Adam

[Adam]

D138 didnt work unfortunately but an Chunky Orient did. I had tried numerous times to get it going but nothing as I love the design. Tried your procedure and Wham Bam strong as an ox. The only thing that's missing is a bulb for the light(are these till available?)

Thanks for the great advice Tom, Hardest part was getting the distilled water!

Adam

[LEDluvr]

.... as I love the design.

I haven't seen an Orient LCD with that design but now that Is see it, I like it too.
It has a "jena se qua"... and it looks very '70's!
Just curious- does it have a flashing colon? Or no colon?

[Adam]

flashing colon, it is quite unusual though as the top right button flicks through no digits, date on its own, hours on their own and hours minutes and seconds all together. Im not sure whether this was a way to save battery power, but ive never seen it on a lcd before. I have another Orient with the same module which is also beautifully built(needs a new crystal) with a stunning face plate and awesome case. I cleaned this one as well but have now got some real digit issues I think I must have damaged the zebra strips.

Adam

[LEDluvr]

Beautiful blue face there! Though I like the case design of the first one better....